Welcome to The Principal’s Handbook, your go-to resource for principals looking to revamp their leadership approach and prioritize self-care. I’m Barb Flowers, a certified life coach with eight years of experience as an elementary principal. Tune in each week as we delve into strategies for boosting mental resilience, managing time effectively, and nurturing overall wellness.

From tackling daily challenges to maintaining a healthy work-life balance, we’ll navigate the complexities of school leadership together. Join me in fostering your sense of purpose as a principal and reigniting your passion for the job. Welcome to a podcast where your wellbeing is the top priority.

Well, welcome everyone to the podcast. I’m excited today. I’m here with Principal Mark Schwartz, and I’m thrilled to have him on the podcast. So welcome, Mark.

Mark: Thank you. Super excited to be here.

Barb: So if you could just tell us a little bit about your background—how much experience do you have as a teacher, administrator, and tell us a little bit about your career in education.

Mark: For sure. Yeah. Actually, education was not my first career—not the first thing I thought I was gonna go into. When I was in college, I actually got a chance to study the Holocaust in Europe. I went to different concentration camps, and I came back—those kinds of trips will change you, going to Auschwitz and all. I took a ministry class actually, and I fell in love with it. The ministry class we had to take at the school I went to—Elmhurst University now—transformed my mindset.

I ended up going down the track of getting a minor in theology, and a professor said, “Mark, you should go to seminary.” So I did seminary first. After I got my MDiv, I was a youth pastor part-time, making no money. So I started substitute teaching and fell in love with the education world, sobbing and working at a church. I did that for a few years, then someone said, “Hey, you should go into teaching.”

I got my master’s in teaching. My first job was part-time and I loved it. I never turned back. As I continued in education, I taught for 10 years. I was always studying leadership, even when I wasn’t officially a leader by title—I was reading, listening, and trying to grow in leadership. I remember thinking, “Man, when I’m principal one day, things are gonna be different.”

I actually had to change my mindset because that wasn’t healthy—it made me bitter and upset. A book I read really transformed the way I looked at leadership as a teacher. The book was How to Lead When You Don’t Have Authority. It helped me grow as a leader where I was. I realized I am a leader, and here’s how I lead.

I kept learning, and eventually during COVID I went for my next master’s to be an administrator at North Park University in Chicago. It was one of the best experiences I ever had, and I haven’t turned back since. This is my third year in administration now. I love going to work, and my first year as principal, I really enjoyed what I do.

Barb: That’s amazing. I love that you had such a different career path. It’s really cool you went to seminary and started as a youth pastor, then ended up principal—still working with kids. How has your first year as principal been? I know it can be crazy going into a new building, learning students, parents, teachers, and all that.

Mark: The first year of administration, especially as principal, definitely has a learning curve. But I love it—mostly because of the community and staff. Their big thing is they come to me with solutions, not problems. That’s my culture: if you come to me with a problem only, I’ll flip it and ask, “What do you suggest we do?” They’re getting in the habit of bringing problems and solutions, and I celebrate that.

My job is all about collective leadership. It gets tricky because ultimately the final decision is on you as the principal, but having good people around helps. The first year is a learning curve, with lots of relationship building, being vulnerable, asking for grace, forgiveness, advice, and help. I’m not ashamed to tell people what I don’t know—I think being authentic is a huge advantage.

Barb: Yeah, that authenticity makes people comfortable, knowing you don’t have all the answers. It makes them feel safe bringing solutions, too.

One reason I wanted to have you on is because before becoming principal, you were assistant principal for two years, and now you lead an AP yourself. A topic I hear a lot from principals is how challenging it is to mentor an AP while focusing on your own growth. So reflecting on your AP experience, what were the biggest lessons that helped prepare you for your principal role?

Mark: I can ramble, so cut me off! But one big learning curve for me was realizing it’s not about being liked anymore. As a youth pastor and teacher, I got energy from people liking me. As an administrator, that changed. I had mentors—either assigned or I sought them out—to coach me.

One mentor asked, “Mark, would you rather be liked or respected?” My instinct was, “I want to be liked.” But the problem with being liked as an administrator is you won’t make hard decisions—you’ll make the ones that make people happy. That was a tough curve. After meetings, people would have “meetings after the meeting,” and I felt insecure, wondering if they were talking about me or upset about my decisions.

So early in my admin career, I realized I have to be okay with making decisions and focus on being respected, not just liked. Of course, it feels good to be liked, but if you want to be a leader, you have to be okay with not everyone liking you. I heard somewhere that if everyone likes you, you might not be doing your job right because leadership involves hard things.

I’m not there yet where I seek people not to like me, but I definitely shoot for respect.

Another thing I learned was confrontation is hard, and people avoid it in education. But to be a good leader, you have to do the hard stuff—face-to-face conversations. If you get a long email from a parent, don’t email back, make a call instead. Email gets messy. A phone call or inviting them in for a face-to-face conversation can really disarm people.

Also, underpromise and overdeliver. People request things, and don’t just say yes right away. Sometimes say, “That might not work,” but then find a way to make it work. If it doesn’t, have that hard conversation explaining why.

Those are some key learning curves I’ve encountered, things I’ve read about, and now the rubber meets the road. Now I’m being tested, and I try to put those lessons into practice.

Barb: I’m a recovering people-pleaser myself, so I totally relate. It’s hard realizing you won’t please everyone, and some people might talk about you behind your back. That’s part of being an administrator.

So how do you help your assistant principals handle that?

Mark: I think the phrase “clear as kind” is really powerful. I have a sign in my office about it. When I’m upset about something, I look internally and ask, “What did I do or not do to communicate my expectations?” It’s about being clear on expectations.

When I was an AP, I tried to do more than the job description. That was frustrating sometimes. For APs, the number one thing is setting very clear expectations for the job, the culture, how to talk to parents. Sometimes you get lucky and have someone with great soft skills, but if not, you need to set those clear expectations—how we talk to people, greet them, what the office vibe is.

Culture is caught, not taught. When you see what you want, celebrate it and say, “This is what I’m talking about. I see it in action.” That’s how you build culture.

Barb: I remember being a new AP and feeling clueless. You learn leadership theory in school but then get the office and wonder, “Now what?” Modeling and clear expectations help so much. Like handling parent calls or behaviors are totally different than when you were a teacher.

Mark: Exactly. When I started as AP, I was hungry to learn and ask questions but there was no system for onboarding. I remember being onboarded as a principal and thinking a big focus should be making new people feel part of the team right away.

We’ve had four APs in four years, so the staff roll their eyes when a new one comes. I make sure to be upfront and say, “People expect you’ll only be here a short time, so you have to build trust fast.” I want our APs excited about the vision, reading materials I send them, knowing the culture, so no surprises.

Barb: Yeah, AP is often called the worst job. But I like your perspective: work fulfillment matters. If APs feel valued and can contribute beyond grunt work, they stay engaged and want to be there.

Mark: Exactly. I want APs to bring their passions and skills beyond the job description. That’s what makes the organization better and makes work fulfilling.

Barb: I have APs I coach who dislike discipline but love instructional leadership. If they’re stuck doing just discipline, they miss out on the bigger leadership picture. Supporting APs to lead in areas they love is so important.

How would you describe the biggest differences between being an AP and a principal?

Mark: As AP, you have ideas but the principal makes the big decisions. That can be frustrating. I wasn’t actively looking to leave the AP role but some relationships nudged me toward principal.

A funny moment this year was talking to an AP about an idea and realizing, “Wait, I’m the principal. I can make this happen.” That felt good.

I’m not power hungry—I believe in collective leadership with our BLT team and committees. Teachers and parents know their input matters.

The privilege of leadership is huge. My approach is: What’s best for kids? What benefits teachers? I’ve had lots of “aha” moments realizing I have authority to make changes.

Barb: That’s awesome. The freedom to make decisions without micromanagement is important.

Mark: Yes. My district leadership trusts me. I’ve introduced hospitality initiatives that are now influencing others district-wide. That gives me fulfillment.

Barb: The fun stuff is great, but obviously there’s hard stuff too—difficult conversations, tough decisions.

Mark: Leadership means having a point of view and being assertive. As a recovering people-pleaser, it’s hard sometimes, but you have to make decisions and accept consequences later.

People appreciate a decision even if it needs fixing later, better than no decision.

I tell myself, “I made the best decision I could in that moment.” Sometimes you only have seconds to decide.

I’ve had hard conversations with upset parents. I listen, explain the reasoning, then ask, “What do you suggest we do?” Most people come around.

Barb: That vulnerability—sharing your thinking and why decisions were made—helps build trust.

Mark: Exactly. It’s exhausting, so you don’t do it for every decision, only the ones causing concern. But it pays off.

Barb: I love that you’re intentionally building positive relationships with kids. Principals sometimes get a reputation as “the mean principal,” but you’re changing that by going to kids—showing up to their activities, classrooms, lunch. It’s an investment worth it.

Mark: It was a learning curve this year. In my last district, kids came to me. Here, I have to go to them, which is different but rewarding.

Barb: Modeling that for your AP is important—getting out of the office, being visible.

Mark: Yes. I had a principal who was in classrooms all the time. Kids noticed when he wasn’t there and asked about him. That’s a powerful example.

Barb: If you could go back and tell yourself one thing in your first year as an AP, what would it be?

Mark: A teacher told me this year, “Don’t sweat the small stuff.” I wish I’d known that earlier. Friday night emails from parents can ruin weekends. Now I remind myself those things can wait.

I’m on top of emails, but I’ve learned not to let them eat at me.

Barb: I took email off my phone and that changed everything—no checking emails on weekends or nights.

Mark: I’ve learned to let things cool off. If a parent sends a tough email, I’ll invite them to a phone call later, not respond immediately. It helps de-escalate.

Barb: You’re in control of the timing of conversations.

Mark: Exactly. Parents might want instant responses, but I set the pace.

Barb: It sounds like emotional regulation and modeling calmness is a huge part of your leadership.

Mark: Definitely. I model calm, composed responses so staff and APs do the same. Most tense conversations end well.

Barb: That’s powerful leadership.

Mark: I also practice “unreasonable hospitality.” A book I love talks about giving people more than they expect. I model that with staff and APs—finding ways to surprise and delight.

Barb: That’s amazing. Thanks so much for sharing your story, Mark. How can people connect with you?

Mark: You can find me on LinkedIn at my name or email me at markt.schwarz@gmail.com. Hospitality in education is my passion.

Barb: Thanks again, Mark. It was great having you on.

Mark: Thank you, Barb.